Despite the desire to have a career and maintain their independence it is nonetheless true that, given the chance to be with a man, many women will happily let go of their lives for the great unknown. And they'll make that decision with alarming alacrity: certainly there are game show contestants that have deliberated for longer in choosing box number 3 over number 6.
A thirty something friend of Ms R's whom we shall call Sarah recently returned to the UK after following her man to Australia. She has in fact returned with him but in less than desirable personal circumstances. A bit about Sarah: Attractive, intellectually very bright, witty but low in self-esteem. Up until age of 32 she hadn't had that many boyfriends, a fact which may well explain some things. And while she is very much a modern girl, she was not unlike many thirty-somethings in that she was waiting for her Prince to knock on the door. At times it seemed that was all she desired which worried Ms R: if you want something so badly you'll end up going out on a limb for it.
Sarah worked in banking and those of you who know the business will understand that her move from middle to front office was a major opportunity. She'd been in the job for about 18 months when she saw her Prince - at the gym. In some ways he was a mirror image of her: attractive, smart and insecure. Ms R knew straight away that Sarah couldn't believe her luck: to bag someone who not only shared her love for the gym but was good looking; why this was her Prince. He was also a corporate lawyer having a career crisis. He'd just sold his house and his life was not too sorted so, barely five months after meeting, he moved into her flat.
No, no and no. Convenience is the absolute wrong reason for moving in: Ms R knows because she's done it. And she would never do it again.
He then decided that it would be more fun being a solicitor in Sydney than in London. Same shit but with added sun. So he got his company to move him. Sarah was going too. Ms R was concerned. She told Sarah that in her experience she should at least wait a few months - let him miss her and make some real plans rather than just going out there - and get on with her career which was poised to take off.
She said he didn't want to go by himself. They left in 2006. He had a great job. She didn't: she couldn't replicate her job in London. Still they had the beachfront flat and he could do triathlons. She hated her job and they decided to come back to London. He got a job. As for Sarah, well it was now November 2007: the credit crunch was biting, she didn't have enough contacts and, worst of all for a woman in the City, was headed towards the dangerous child bearing age of 35 when HR people start averting their eyes.
Yesterday, she was in tears yet again. There is no job on the horizon. She feels powerless. She wishes she could go back to 2006 and those early decisions but it's too late. And now the only thing she has to hang on to for her fragile self-esteem is her man.
Knowing Sarah loves kids, Ms R asked her why she didn't just go ahead and have a baby. After all she wasn't getting any younger and that's what she always wanted. He was making enough money and they were happy together, weren't they? Something to think about perhaps?
"He doesn't really like children. He thinks they're noisy and he doesn't like noise."
"But you've always wanted children. Didn't you talk about it?"
"He said he'll have them if I want them but it's not the right time."
There is of course never a right time to do things.Unfortunately there is often a wrong time. And the wrong decisions.
At this point, Ms R reckons this could also be the wrong partner but she suspects that having invested so much in it, Sarah won't allow herself to contemplate that thought. It's likely she'll just cling on to her fractured fairytale, hoping that the passive approach she's taken up till now will result in a happy ending.
Tuesday, 3 June 2008
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26 comments:
The Beau is not betting on it either.
So she jumps into a marriage because they like the gym? Holy shit Batman--Bad karma Numero uno, and the rest are bad karma numeros: dos, tres, quatros et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. This is very sadstory: one the sadder stories The Beau has heard in recent times. Basically you have two very needy people who are not grown up enough to make rational decisions. The Gym? They had dynamite jobs, at least she did, and they threw it over for fun in the sun so he could run on the fucking beach in OZ? The mind boggles seismically at the sheer lunacy of theirnon-decisions. My query is: how in the name of the goddess did she get into a position at work of such responsibility, given her limited intelligence, with decision-making skills? As for the todger the less said the better. Children are noisy? Seismic rumblings occur once again. The dude is a serious wanker. He defines the words idiot fuckwit. My advice to her is: TTMFA: Drop the mother-fucker already. Get away, do not walk, do not collect $200--run for your life to come Sarah or your life is going to bite you on the ass even more insidiously than it already has. Unass his AO. in other words get your tight little gymmed out ass as far away from his area of operations as you can go. Take a bullet train. Take a jet, go to Antarctica, the deepest Amazon jungles. Anywhere but near this loser. For crissakes live in a fucking submarine. Find a job and a good man who will give you the babies you want. And the peace of mind everyone deserves.
The Beau is totally stunned,
M'Lady Robinson. Totally fucking axed. Whoa!
Agree with the Beau's conclusions. Can't help feeling that this somehow demonstrates that you can choose to 'settle' for someone/something that would actually be even better than the dream
Hello Beau and Ho Hum: I have known her for ten years and she has sought my advice at every turn. And my ex-huband's advice (who concurs with me). And each time she says "I know you're right but oh well." And I'm thinking "God, learn from my mistakes and those of people I know" but of course she has to jump in.
It was all wrong from the start. I said it. Ex said it. My best pal said it. They are very dependent in the worst way: you can be with her for half an hour and he'll text or phone. In two hours it might happen four times. That happened from the start. I was worried then. Yes I'm concerned about her now and I'm afraid to ask her about the big question: is he right? And yes I'm cross.
Cross? as well you should be,my dear. to have "spent" that much on a friend and have it disregarded with a shrug would piss the hell outta me. They Are co-dependent and will eventually bottom out. And that such a pity. And such a terrible waste.
Beau
Ho Hum: it really is a dream, more of a nightmare actually, don't you think?
Beau
I can see another tortured pair of souls going down the two wrongs should make it right spiral. Look around, they're in good company!
Beau: Well I did get angry and stop talking to her for a time. It's very hard.
Adrian: Welcome. My ex husband said exactly the same thing. In fact he was doubtful of the union from the start.
Why oh why is it that people just cannot take responsibility for their actions?
Sometimes I really think people choose the options that they KNOW are going to go wrong just so they can spend the next year moaning about 'poor me'. They don't want to learn. They want people to feel sorry for them - they are emotional vampires who will end up sucking every bit of energy out of you. 'Poor me, I am a creature of the night - I never get to play in the sun...well you should have listened to your mother and eaten that garlic for dinner and worn your crucifix shouldn't you then dear?' Hmpf.
It's really hard when a friend chooses so obviously the wrong man. All you can really do is stand back and wait 'til the fallout.
Mind you in my case I've got one female friend that when she introduces me to any of her new men, I have to resist the urge to take the men aside and tell them to get out quick...but that's a whole other story.
I'm glad she's not going down the baby route. At least without kids she won't be tied to him for life.
I suspect it will all get a lot worse before it gets any better. I only give advice now when I'm asked for it , realising that ultimately most people do what they want to do anyway. Sometimes it's hard to stick by a friend who is so obviously so stuck in the mud and I admire you for doing so, Ms. R.
It's depressing. And one of the reasons I hate Sex and The City so much. It's all about these "types" but then goes and tags on 'happy'ish endings.
I agree with Missy M. Baby + Unhappy Gal = BAD IDEA. I hope she gets this sorted out. And I have to wonder: is there a land somewhere, anywhere, where people actually heed the rational advice sent their way?
Such a sad story :( And, before you know it, she'll be pregnant for something to do and he'll say he doesnt mind until he finds himself becoming 'dependent' upon someone else...
What a provocative post!
My first thought is that it’s only one side of the story, with Ms R’s frame around it. (Not being critical of that - just an observation.)
My second thought is that the lady might benefit from some serious life-coaching with a heavy dose of NLP. But I say that about most people, myself included. Still, it’s a serious suggestion.
My last thought is about the right to interfere. I’d take the view that it is better not to do anything other than suggest a professional to help the lady sort things out. The danger of getting involved is to be sucked into some kind of drama triangle where everyone ends up as a loser.
Graham.
you can be with her for half an hour and he'll text or phone
hmm, that says it all about this relationship. I reckon you need to ask her why is she in this relationship if he is making her miserable and doesn't take any of her needs into account? She will probably say, "it's because I love him." At which point you need to tell her she needs to leave. tell her you know she thinks she can't live without him but she can. This is a totally co-dependent relationship ... he knows he can behave any way he likes and she will still stay with him and it will never get any better, i have seen this many times.
Seems neither of them are being honest with the other. They're both too scared of the consequences of being single for any amount of time so they're both clinging to the hope that the other party will acquiesce to their needs but are reluctant to discuss it for fear of the consequences - separation.
Oh dear. Its tough when good mates make bad choices. Anger, exasperation and stunned amazement are but 3 of the emotions one might feel; but we're dealing with a good mate here, one we've known for 10 years (and from experience, Aussies never let their mates down). So we carefully judge what to say, and what not to say because we want the best for them .. and maybe, we can help make that happen.
But I guess Ms R is pretty savvy, and has understood all that amateur psych for years ..
Ah God love her. I know family members that chose poorly. One ended up a single parent of two kids. The other somewhat bitter.
They didn't want to be advised at the time but I wish we pushed harder for them to reconsider their choices at the time.
Good luck to them both.
"child bearing age of 35 when HR people start averting their eyes."
So true, who wants to employ someone only for them to feck off on expensive mat-leave for a year, while you are forced to hold onto their job and get someone in on contract while they are away?
What's her phone number?
I followed a man, but I was young and litreally had nothing to lose. Would I do it again?
Never.
I would be mad at her too.
Orchid: I wonder if there is an element of us, generally, wanting what's bad for us. As for my friend I think the fact that she hasn't had many boyfriends and is low in self-esteem probably contains the answers. At the same time she's a very logical, intelligent brain. So it's hard to watch.
Misssy: There's advice and there's interference and I try to stay on the side of the former.
Suzanne: I am a Saint. Saint Lady Robinson
Clarissa:Happy endings are also the province of chicklit and it worries me because given the numbers of women who read it, it obviously resonates and reinforces something!
Moi: That land is when you get older and have no choice:)
Cake: It makes me sad and I would love for it to go well but I worry because I also know how stressful not being employed is. It's much easier without a partner in the sense that you can have your moods on your own.
Graham: I assure you it's pretty much as I told it. I try to do that on this blog when I talk about others. I agree that professional help is needed and have suggested it: before 2006! You're right. You can only advise in a measured way.
Emma: A dose of EmmaK is what's needed. The co-dependency worries me Emma. It has from the start. You know those couples that cling to each other through dinner and don't let each other go at parties? It's like that. I don't feel I can tell her as she might get very upset and retreat into her shell. And she doesn't have many friends to go to. I know that.
King:"They're both too scared of the consequences of being single for any amount of time so they're both clinging to the hope that the other party will acquiesce to their needs but are reluctant to discuss it for fear of the consequences - separation." Couldn't have put it better myself. That is exactly the point they are at I suspect. Though I think she's thinking more about things since he's busy shuffling paper in an American law firm for at least 18 hours a day...makes things even worse. Have we solved the motorbike problem? Was it the leads?
Andy:Ms R has indeed performed in the guise of amateur psych and it has been welcomed and agreed with. However you can imagine what is going through her head right now: "Oh shit what the hell do I do?" She needs Plan B. On that point she did agree. But we didn't talk about what it might contain.
Brian: I can see HR's point as well. As can many single women.
Tintin: Ha ha:)
AB: I kind of followed a man to get her and it cost me financially. But that's it. It didn't cost me in any other way. We are not married but are best friends now but I guess we are also both very independent and that makes a huge difference.
Oh, poor Sarah. She must know that she's inviting trouble by basing her whole sense of self-worth on something that is so fragile and easily crushed, but I guess that without some major external factor forcing her hand she won't be able to find the strength to change it. I followed someone somewhere once, and it resulted in a few years of emotional torture, so I live in fear of making that mistake again. She should listen to you, but I would imagine she would have to re-programme her whole brain to make an assertive decision like that on her own behalf. Sounds like professional help is probably in order, but seeking that out would be admitting out loud that something's wrong, which would be tantamout to giving up on the whole relationship.
Frustrating for you as the balanced friend, but worse to be her and to feel like you have no options left.
'It's not who you are that holds you back, it's who you think you are not.' That statement talks about limiting beliefs about oneself and the way of the world. When those limiting beliefs get in the way, it's a very good idea to weedle them out and turn them around.
Smart people, and I guess the lady is smart, look for others to help them get on with life. And if you are really smart, you get someone even better to help. Those people who are even better usually ask for a fee, because experience says it works best that way (professional = ego-free, non-judgemental, most of the time).
There's nothing about 'failure' in seeking this kind of help; it's an investment to maximise the chances of a successful future, where the most is made out of the one chance of a life.
If I sound like a life-coach, that's because I am. And that's nothing to do with scented note-paper, as I read somewhere around here. Nor is it to do with telling people how to live. In a nutshell, it's about helping people to make the choices, develop the strategies and take the steps which will lead to them getting what they really want.
Graham.
No, I'm not impressed that she's given up something she's worked so hard for. Waiting to see what happens when you're apart is the best thing she could've done here, but it seems that maybe she thought this chance wouldn't come around again so she jumped. She's now given him the message that she'll do it again.
I "have" a boy in Japan who I've missed every day for the past week when I flew out of Kansai International. That's great, and right now I think he's worth it. But the test will be if he misses me as much. Even better is that when I first met him he didn't tick the boxes - I liked him because of him, not because he seemed perfect on paper.
If he wants to move in with me he can, but he might have to get used to our iffy British hygeine!
Leonie: Eminently sensible and you're right, this would be a major shift. The main thing against her is she doesn't like change: she is a creature of habit in terms of how she lives, what she eats, her gym routine etc so you can imagine what this sort of thinking must be doing to her.
Anon: Well I think to an extent we need to make mistakes and if we're lucky we have people to pick us up. Sometimes even people telling you - paid or unpaid - is not going to work because maybe you've reached a point where the only learning to be done is to be done the hardest way.
Emsk: Hello, we are meeting up next week! Hurrah. Emsk you're right but it's so hard for us women to back off when we like/love someone. We're programmed to nest and so we want to see them and be with them and that's harder to fight for someone like my friend.
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